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	<title>Comments on: Some Take Away&#039;s</title>
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	<link>http://www.vincenthorn.com/2008/07/28/some-take-aways/</link>
	<description>Buddhist Geek, Teacher, Explorer</description>
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		<title>By: Vince Horn</title>
		<link>http://www.vincenthorn.com/2008/07/28/some-take-aways/comment-page-1/#comment-1112</link>
		<dc:creator>Vince Horn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Aug 2008 22:22:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.vincenthorn.com/?p=884#comment-1112</guid>
		<description>Hi Nathan,

I totally agree that shifting factors is vital, both before and after stream-entry, and that often happens through different techniques.  It can also happen within a technique as well, which is sometimes less dangerous as then one can get more and more familiar with one technique and can have a lot of faith in that method.  Both are true, as you say.

I hear you on the vacation time!  I was very fortunate to be in school when doing many of my longer retreats.  I was also ridiculously persistent, so who knows...  But yeah, having an extra three years to practice would be great!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Nathan,</p>
<p>I totally agree that shifting factors is vital, both before and after stream-entry, and that often happens through different techniques.  It can also happen within a technique as well, which is sometimes less dangerous as then one can get more and more familiar with one technique and can have a lot of faith in that method.  Both are true, as you say.</p>
<p>I hear you on the vacation time!  I was very fortunate to be in school when doing many of my longer retreats.  I was also ridiculously persistent, so who knows&#8230;  But yeah, having an extra three years to practice would be great!</p>
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		<title>By: nathan</title>
		<link>http://www.vincenthorn.com/2008/07/28/some-take-aways/comment-page-1/#comment-1111</link>
		<dc:creator>nathan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Aug 2008 17:57:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.vincenthorn.com/?p=884#comment-1111</guid>
		<description>thanks vince, that is helpful. i tend to think that even for us who aren&#039;t stream-enterers it&#039;s necessary to if not shift techniques to adjust the various factors.

that, and i am running low on vacation time, i am going to have to get back to dream yoga to get that &quot;three year&quot; retreat in like Wangyal said.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>thanks vince, that is helpful. i tend to think that even for us who aren&#8217;t stream-enterers it&#8217;s necessary to if not shift techniques to adjust the various factors.</p>
<p>that, and i am running low on vacation time, i am going to have to get back to dream yoga to get that &#8220;three year&#8221; retreat in like Wangyal said.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Vince Horn</title>
		<link>http://www.vincenthorn.com/2008/07/28/some-take-aways/comment-page-1/#comment-1110</link>
		<dc:creator>Vince Horn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Aug 2008 17:54:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.vincenthorn.com/?p=884#comment-1110</guid>
		<description>Hello Nathan,

Thanks for your thoughts.  I agree that one can get neurotic about their practice.  That goes for people that get to ridgid about the techniques they are using, those that are too rigid about non-technique techniques, and for those that are changing their techniques too much without going deep in one direction.  :)

What I&#039;m pointing to in this post, while I&#039;m guilty of doing all of the above at one time or another, is that when one is making progress out beyond stream-entry--and to some degree before it to--the territory itself is constantly changing in unpredictable ways, that techniques do very much change in response to new conditions.  Also one continues to learn more about the subtlety of techniques, what they are good for and what they aren&#039;t good for, and begins more and more to see the commonality amongst techniques

Prior to stream-entry I stuck almost exclusively to the Mahasi noting practice, knowing that if I got the dosage high enough and applied the technique correctly (as in using it to see the three characteristics in everything that arose and passed) I would have that initial break-through, and did.  I recommend the same for anyone that is going for stream-entry.  After that the rules change, as anyone who has been there, knows.  And it changes even more later on.

As far as progress goes, if you feel like you aren&#039;t making any and it is a high priority for you to, I would recommend getting familiar with the maps of the territory so that you know what to look for, going on a long retreat if you can, and practicing full-out until you reach your aim.  It really doesn&#039;t need to be any harder than that.  :)

And of course, when you are actually practicing it is a good idea to examine ideas of progress, feelings of disappointment, excitement, etc.  But when not practicing I treat the realizable goals of meditation like anything else, create strategies on how to attain them, and then follow through with the actions necessary to make it happen.  And guess what?  It works.  :)

That&#039;s not to say that you aren&#039;t doing some or all of these things, but just as a suggestion if you aren&#039;t.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hello Nathan,</p>
<p>Thanks for your thoughts.  I agree that one can get neurotic about their practice.  That goes for people that get to ridgid about the techniques they are using, those that are too rigid about non-technique techniques, and for those that are changing their techniques too much without going deep in one direction.  <img src='http://www.vincenthorn.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>What I&#8217;m pointing to in this post, while I&#8217;m guilty of doing all of the above at one time or another, is that when one is making progress out beyond stream-entry&#8211;and to some degree before it to&#8211;the territory itself is constantly changing in unpredictable ways, that techniques do very much change in response to new conditions.  Also one continues to learn more about the subtlety of techniques, what they are good for and what they aren&#8217;t good for, and begins more and more to see the commonality amongst techniques</p>
<p>Prior to stream-entry I stuck almost exclusively to the Mahasi noting practice, knowing that if I got the dosage high enough and applied the technique correctly (as in using it to see the three characteristics in everything that arose and passed) I would have that initial break-through, and did.  I recommend the same for anyone that is going for stream-entry.  After that the rules change, as anyone who has been there, knows.  And it changes even more later on.</p>
<p>As far as progress goes, if you feel like you aren&#8217;t making any and it is a high priority for you to, I would recommend getting familiar with the maps of the territory so that you know what to look for, going on a long retreat if you can, and practicing full-out until you reach your aim.  It really doesn&#8217;t need to be any harder than that.  <img src='http://www.vincenthorn.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>And of course, when you are actually practicing it is a good idea to examine ideas of progress, feelings of disappointment, excitement, etc.  But when not practicing I treat the realizable goals of meditation like anything else, create strategies on how to attain them, and then follow through with the actions necessary to make it happen.  And guess what?  It works.  <img src='http://www.vincenthorn.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>That&#8217;s not to say that you aren&#8217;t doing some or all of these things, but just as a suggestion if you aren&#8217;t.</p>
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		<title>By: nathan</title>
		<link>http://www.vincenthorn.com/2008/07/28/some-take-aways/comment-page-1/#comment-1109</link>
		<dc:creator>nathan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 Aug 2008 22:17:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.vincenthorn.com/?p=884#comment-1109</guid>
		<description>you&#039;ve said the practice is constantly changing and advocate different techniques throughout the practice, but I feel like it&#039;s real easy to get neurotic about this. I am right now, only practicing anapanasati (a loose definition thereof) and noting, and separate bhramavihara sessions, though even then I am making all sorts of maneuvers that aren&#039;t strictly in the definitions of the techniques. My teacher tells me to stick with anapanasati, but he also advises a swiss-army knife approach with all the various recollections used prescriptively (e.g., unclean parts of the body to curb desire, recollection on death to curb sleepiness and lethargy, the analysis into four elements when stuff gets weird or difficult, etc.)... so this is a constant struggle for me. I know that Jack Kornfield&#039;s got that chapter &quot;One Seat&quot;, but I think mostly he&#039;s saying to stop being one of those airhead spiritual groupies treating practice like a tapas bar crawl.

I also get sick of the idea of progress (mostly since I don&#039;t make any), but I&#039;ve started just using that sentiment as an object to analyze into the five aggregates, or just as a prompt to shift to &quot;doing nothing&quot;, and found that helpful</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>you&#8217;ve said the practice is constantly changing and advocate different techniques throughout the practice, but I feel like it&#8217;s real easy to get neurotic about this. I am right now, only practicing anapanasati (a loose definition thereof) and noting, and separate bhramavihara sessions, though even then I am making all sorts of maneuvers that aren&#8217;t strictly in the definitions of the techniques. My teacher tells me to stick with anapanasati, but he also advises a swiss-army knife approach with all the various recollections used prescriptively (e.g., unclean parts of the body to curb desire, recollection on death to curb sleepiness and lethargy, the analysis into four elements when stuff gets weird or difficult, etc.)&#8230; so this is a constant struggle for me. I know that Jack Kornfield&#8217;s got that chapter &#8220;One Seat&#8221;, but I think mostly he&#8217;s saying to stop being one of those airhead spiritual groupies treating practice like a tapas bar crawl.</p>
<p>I also get sick of the idea of progress (mostly since I don&#8217;t make any), but I&#8217;ve started just using that sentiment as an object to analyze into the five aggregates, or just as a prompt to shift to &#8220;doing nothing&#8221;, and found that helpful</p>
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		<title>By: Vishal</title>
		<link>http://www.vincenthorn.com/2008/07/28/some-take-aways/comment-page-1/#comment-1108</link>
		<dc:creator>Vishal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 Jul 2008 10:02:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.vincenthorn.com/?p=884#comment-1108</guid>
		<description>Vince, very well written! And very &#039;insightful&#039; reflections, if I may say so!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Vince, very well written! And very &#8216;insightful&#8217; reflections, if I may say so!</p>
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		<title>By: Jackson</title>
		<link>http://www.vincenthorn.com/2008/07/28/some-take-aways/comment-page-1/#comment-1107</link>
		<dc:creator>Jackson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Jul 2008 14:45:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.vincenthorn.com/?p=884#comment-1107</guid>
		<description>“do whatever practices help you stay most present &amp; awake.”

This is very wise (I would expect nothing less from Jack). As a novice meditator, I often find it difficult to stick to the practice that I start out with. A sensation usually arises that grabs my attention. Rather than pushing it away, I tend to begin investigating it in attempt to see its true nature. This helps me stay present, which I now know is a good thing.

Thank you for posting your reflection. I wish you well in your practice.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>“do whatever practices help you stay most present &amp; awake.”</p>
<p>This is very wise (I would expect nothing less from Jack). As a novice meditator, I often find it difficult to stick to the practice that I start out with. A sensation usually arises that grabs my attention. Rather than pushing it away, I tend to begin investigating it in attempt to see its true nature. This helps me stay present, which I now know is a good thing.</p>
<p>Thank you for posting your reflection. I wish you well in your practice.</p>
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		<title>By: Duff</title>
		<link>http://www.vincenthorn.com/2008/07/28/some-take-aways/comment-page-1/#comment-1106</link>
		<dc:creator>Duff</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Jul 2008 05:45:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.vincenthorn.com/?p=884#comment-1106</guid>
		<description>Thanks for the reflections, dawg!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the reflections, dawg!</p>
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