I appreciate your word play, and your decidedly Advaita approach. Let me just remind you, since you seem to prefer this side of things (wherein you say there are no sides), that you are still taking an approach. You can do the “Advaita shuffle” all you want, but life is always taking a perspective.

“How many can set aside their questions and embrace that simple teaching?”

Exactly. You make my case for me here. If it were so “simple” there would be almost no one who didn’t get it. The problem is, almost none do. Hence the decision by many to use development, use perspectives, speak about time, etc. but in the service of awakening. The Advaitists take another approach, but it’s predictable, one-sided, and also kind of boring and obnoxious (or at least the people parroting it can be). It’s still valid, but when looking at the whole range of awakened perspectives, is one small part of a much bigger tapestry. I’m interested in the tapestry, not this one strand.

And please, don’t come back trying to deconstruct these statements using Advaita-logic. I’ll either ignore them or remove them, but it isn’t going to lead anywhere.

Best,

-Vincent

P.S. – Sorry, I meant to put the word “separation” not “escape” in quotes. You definitely did not use the word, “escape.” My original point remains the same however…

I know what you are trying to put to words. Always insufficient that, but rude not to try, right? Particularly as you fill the role of teacher of such things day to day. Useful concepts for that, as long as the student knows all such conceptualization is inherently limited. Pointers only. Hindrances if held.

An apex implies a convergence – of two. A place where both are clearly seen – from a “higher” perspective – and where they meet – but still two. Manifest on one slope, unmanifest on the other. If we add the “apex concept” – placed between duality – we are at the level 3 “trinity” I mentioned. A deep but conceptual understanding. Perhaps as high as can be taught – but also the point we must leave our teacher, all our knowledge, our beliefs – and see what sees all that, is all that, and all else. Otherwise, we are stranded on that imagined summit. No escape indeed!

Apex or nadir, no matter. All of the mountain is the mountain. Seeing the summit as a goal to seek, or as a position of advantage, is a game of ego/mind.

The sage may climb, but in that is only climbing. The sage might enjoy the view from the top, but there is only the viewing. No shelter there, no attainment, no story to be told. These are of no concern.

No questions, no problems.

How many can set aside their questions and embrace that simple teaching?

Easier for most to look into it this way: Questions are problems to be solved, which assumes something is wrong or lacking. What is being questioned? What is being sought? To what end? Reality is complete and perfect. All is as it is. Nothing is wrong or lacking that is not a delusional/empty/invention of mind. All questions arise in mind, and answering them will only further fuel mind by adding concepts and fueling beliefs. These block awakening. In essence, as far as awakening goes, ALL questions are trick questions.

Paradox, or Truth? (trick question).

I’m not entirely sure I follow your point about adding a level, etc., but it sounds cool nonetheless!

This whole level-thing is a somewhat arbitrary way for me to speak about the dimensionality of development, or increasing wholeness, through time. From a timeless perspective, you’re right, that doesn’t make sense. But, as I continue to point out, non-duality is not “timeless” only, but rather is the inseparability of time and timelessness, of personal and Universal. It’s the apex between & beyond the two.

So, we can do away with levels, as you suggest, and escape the “separation” of time and levels, OR from the apex we can see that there is no problem with any conception whatsoever, including that of levels. In fact, that you would use the word “escape” points out, to me, an unresolved paradox. Conceptions can just as easily serve to express, clarify, and make more whole, as they can create separation and delusion. A deluded mind sees delusion everywhere it looks. An awake mind sees no problem with any of it. What could we possibly need to escape from, while standing at the apex?

-Vincent

1. The face of a coin and the imagery/symbolism on it (conceptually monopolized mind – brutally clear insanity).

2. Heads or tails?! (conflict/suffering- conceptually dualistic (delusional) mind – “the human condition”).

3. The whole coin (both sides and whole coin seen) and useful (currency), a more holistic/balanced concept framework (trinity – spiritual mind – but still a conceptual understanding of manifest/unmanifest seen together [this, that AND both as one comprising the trinity]).

4. The “coin” is now ripples on the pond (complete living unity- “no mind” – non-conceptual reality [and all conceptions that arise within] – now).

At 4, of what use are “levels”? Level 4 is level 0!

Levels are conceptual and so limited to 3,2,& 1 where awareness is still conceptually bound. Saying more about this gets counterproductive fast, as language/communication is conceptual and only in rare moments can it rise above the dualism of level 2 – (which includes my crude attempt to convey #4/0).

Mind is always dualistic, and we must communicate through it. This is not a problem to solve, just the nature of mind.

In that light, while more levels may seem logical, that very logic is what fails us. More levels = more separation = more delusion. This is mind getting in on the game in more subtle ways as its grip begins to slip. The more of its BS you cut through, the better it gets at posing as an ally on the quest by creating/embracing/chasing more complex and elevated structures. All these are tricks played by mind trying harder and harder to keep its seat on the imaginary throne of self. Each level raising the throne room higher in the conceptual castle. Level it!

As far as your rephrase goes, I think that’s close to what I was trying to get at, yes.

What I meant by “being without becoming” has something to do with experiencing something in a completely unimpeded way, to the point where there is no separation between me and my experience, between subject and object. In this case I could either say that all is subject, all is object, it’s beyond subject-object, or is a unified subject-object. That’s where the words break down to me, as the move is more essential than any of these word combinations used to describe it.

That said, I feel like this is a work-in-progress for me, and I’m still trying to find the best way to talk about these things. Words are tricky sometimes, but they I don’t think they always have to be.

Yes, there is a practical element to this, which can be quite a process. In some ways I was speaking to what it seems to be about, at the most simple & direct level. But then, dropping resistance to something and allowing it to flow fully, is a huge practice in-and-of itself. Meditation techniques are, in large part, about exploring what that resistance is like and gently unwinding the various levels of added contraction and confusion around experience (and experiencer). Just as you say, it doesn’t (usually) happen all at once.

And I might also add, that I’m not entirely sure how letting experience flow fully, from a phenomonological point of view, relates to deep trauma. What I’ve found in exploring the intersection between Western psychology and meditation, is that sometimes the phenomonological approach doesn’t always allow people to heal from psychological trauma, as its too dissociated to even access directly or takes a different kind of tact to really work with (ex. cognitive behavioral approaches). Then there are all sorts of skillful methods and techniques in the Western psychological tradition that help do that in more effective ways. That said, from all the sources I’ve read on this topic, my conversations with people who are in both fields, and my own experience, meditation and psychotherapy are highly complimentary.

In the end it is being able to accept yourself and your feelings as being a part of yourself that seems to help them dissipate. Being able to be compassionate to yourself with all this luggage seems to be a good path to healing.

Like I said I don’t think we can expect these feelings to disappear with implementing this approach immediately but in time after making it a practice they become less and less intense and overwhelming.